by Adam St. James

Virtuoso guitarist Steve Vai has just about done it all: land a gig with controversial genius Frank Zappa – by transcribing into perfectly accurate sheet music one of that composer’s most difficult songs – share songwriting credits and the spotlight with hyper-kinetic frontman David Lee Roth at the peak of that singer’s career; become perhaps the most accomplished of the most accomplished guitarists in the music biz; and more recently, start and successfully run his own record label (a label which splits profits with its signees 50-50, no less).

In this telling interview from my archives, Vai shares his thoughts – and sometimes strongly worded advice – on keeping your publishing, collecting your money, and remaining true to your creative soul.

Adam St. James: Steve, you are an artist who has played with some major, mainstream artists such as Whitesnake and David Lee Roth. But you have chosen to pursue mostly an instrumental career, and you own your own record label, to which you sign other artists who also seem to choose higher ground, aesthetically-speaking. What does the whole art vs. commerce issue mean to you?

Steve Vai: Well, they both use different brain muscles. And artists usually come from an artistic consciousness. And business people, who run commerce, usually see things in numbers, and just differently. And very rarely do the “twains” meet. You get someone like Frank Zappa, where they met. He understood business, and he understood art. I think it’s very important that an artist have some kind of idea of what the music industry is about and what their intellectual property value is. It’s your responsibility as an artist to be aware of what you’re getting yourself into, and I think artists know that these days, but they get desperate.

And it’s kind of pathetic that the people who are fascinated with numbers – the accountants and business managers and record company executives – they’re as fascinated with numbers as musicians are with notes. So it’s difficult to find a good chemistry between a manager and an artist, where the artist is being compensated fairly for his work, and the manager is doing his job properly. It’s difficult. And that’s why artists owe it to themselves to understand a bit about the business, and not be so desperate. Because if you’ve got the goods, you’ve got them.

As far as commerce goes, I have no grand visions of being rich and famous, like a pop star. As a matter of fact, I’ve seen it, I’ve walked the edge of it, almost, and I could very easily do without it in my life. Yes, I’d like to have a lot of money. And that’s simply because then it allows you to do more creative things with your art. That’s the only thing that I battle with. I shouldn’t say battle – the only line that I walk.

The kind of music that I do, it’s important to me, and I do it because I can. I look back at what I’m capable of doing, and I think, I believe, that there’s some little uniqueness that I’m capable of contributing. It’s not on a world-shattering, Earth-stopping level. But there’s something there in what I do that, there’s a place for it. And because of that, I do it. I’ve noticed that when you find your niche – and I believe we’re all capable of finding it – usually the commerce will follow. But if you go chasing that commerce feather in the wind, it very easily can bog down your whole creative process.

St. James: Of course, in the past, you’ve consciously chosen some very high-profile, and I would assume, good-paying gigs. I’m sure that you’ve been offered others. I would think you could take your pick of super high-profile gigs, if you wanted to do the sideman thing. And yet you stick to your own art.

Vai: What would you do? If you had the opportunity of playing with Rod Stewart, or David Bowie, or someone like that, or of creating your own music and having an audience for it. One plus one equals two. I have been through playing with various artists – and I enjoyed it. Sometimes I did things for the money. But I wasn’t miserable. I would never do things that would make me miserable – there’s not enough money for that. But I’m a working musician. There was a point where I was just a working musician, and you’ve got to make a living.

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St. James: When I interviewed [bassist] Billy Sheehan after he quit the David Lee Roth band, he said, ‘You could never pay me enough money to ever play with that man again.’ Was his experience in that band different from yours, as far as you recall?

Vai: Uhhhh…

St. James: I’m not asking you to answer for Billy. I’m just wondering about that difference in your opinions.

Vai: Well, when I left Dave’s band, I just thought that we were going in two different musical directions. I learned so much from David Lee Roth I couldn’t even put it into words. And I became famous. He basically put me on a pedestal. And I learned a lot about touring, and the rock world, and being a rock star. But that only satiated a certain portion of my musical appetite. Like I say, I’m this odd bird, in that I’ve got a lot of other things going on in my mind. And when I quit Dave Roth, I never expected anything more to happen with my career. I just expected that, ‘Now I’m going to focus on this music I have in my head, so that I can get it out.’ It sounded interesting to me, so I did that.

As far as going back with Dave Roth, it’s not impossible that if the right situation came along I wouldn’t be in a reformation of the Eat ’Em and Smile band. But we’ve all grown a lot since then. You go through changes. I’m an adult now. I’m a man now. Back then I was young, and I acted differently, I was treated differently, and I saw things differently. And I don’t even know if Billy would be so opposed to it right now either. I’m not putting it out there that I’m looking to reform the Eat ’Em and Smile band. I’m just saying that that’s my take on it. We all grow and evolve, and some of us do, some of us don’t.

So for me to say that I wouldn’t do that for all the money in the world, I don’t know if that’s true. But the money really wouldn’t be so much of a factor.  If someone came to me and said, ‘I’ll give you $10 million to go do a David Lee Roth reunion tour,’ I mean, you wouldn’t have to pay me that much. It’s not like I would be pushed to do it for the money. Because there are things I just won’t do no matter how much you pay me. The money is not a question. And I’m only able to say that now because, everybody has their price. Obviously if something is unsavory and disrespectful I’m not going to do it. But there’s people in situations I just wouldn’t get involved with right now for anything.

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St. James: What did you learn from Frank Zappa?

Vai: Well, many things, but one thing: In the face of all kinds of adversity, you should make the music that you really feel like making.

St. James: He certainly did that.

Vai: Yeah, he certainly did. And I saw him do it.

St. James: On some of your tracks, I’ve heard his influence. Obviously you sought out to join him at a point in your life. How influential was his music to you, as opposed to his business sense?

Vai: Well I think Frank’s business sense has a stronger impact on me than anybody else’s. You can definitely hear elements of my music that came directly from Frank. And really that’s a result of my love and admiration for him and his music. When I heard Frank’s music it really spoke to me in the sense that it had all of the elements that I was always hoping to hear in music. It had great comical value. It was very well arranged, well produced, orchestrated beautifully. Some of it was complex, fast little notes, some of it was extremely simple, mundane stuff. There was a lot of it.

And there was this wicked guitar playing on top of the whole thing. Frank’s music had all of the elements: melody, complexity, simplicity, comedy, political and spiritual – or religious, I should say, not spiritual in Frank’s case – commentaries. A very interesting blend. And like a lot of Frank’s fans, it just spoke to me very heavily.

See Frank’s fans are – there’s like this family. When you get it, you really get it, and it changes the quality of your whole life, his music. And I’m not alone in that. There are very sincere Zappa fans around the world that would do anything for a morsel of his music. And I hope that, in the future, potential Zappa fans have the opportunity to experience these treasures, because they are life-changing experiences.

St. James: I’m sure it distresses you greatly that we lost him so soon.

Vai: Well, you know, he had the audacity to go and die on us.

St. James: The unmitigated audacity. When you joined his band, the story is that you transcribed into musical notation some very complex piece of his. Was it “Black Page Number Two”?

Vai: “Black Page Number One” and “Two.”

St. James: Is that a true story?

Vai: Yeah.

St. James: Let’s talk about publishing. You’re self-published?

Vai: I own all my publishing. Except for things that I’ve scored for films, because it’s just really hard to keep your publishing on that stuff.

St. James: Was there a point at which you were not self-published?

Vai: Nope.

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St. James: So right from Flex-able [Vai’s first solo release, in 1984] you’ve been self-published?

Vai: From Flex-able on I’ve owned everything. And if I can give any advice to anybody, it’s keep your publishing. That’s what Frank [Zappa] told me. Never let anybody take your publishing. Of course if you do a publishing deal with somebody where you get an advance and they take half your publishing and they work your catalog, there’s nothing wrong with that. But, as far as, like, going to a record company and having them tell you that they need your publishing, or if a manager tells you that – just say no!

St. James: What about working your catalog? Do you do that? Do you have somebody doing that for you? Does it matter to you?

Vai: Nowadays, an artist’s catalog is going to get worked in two ways: if they do it, or if they do it. OK? That’s the only way it’s going to get worked. Either you own your publishing and you record and release your own records, and you get paid for your publishing, or you take those songs and you work them yourself to various artists, managers, lawyers – all that stuff.

St. James: …movie studios…

Vai: Movie studios – all that stuff. Now, you can sell half of your publishing, usually, and get a publishing deal. And then that publishing company will market [your music], but you can’t find a good publishing company that’s going to do it. Don’t count on it dude! Don’t count on anybody doing anything on your behalf for you, ever.

St. James: How much time do you spend dealing with or pushing your catalog?

Vai: I don’t. I don’t spend any time whatsoever.

St. James: But you don’t feel a major publisher would spend the time either, so why give them 50 percent of your money?

Vai: Exactly. A major publisher is going to collect money on my songs because I recorded them. They’re not going to take my songs and try to get them placed. There may be some, but I don’t know them. And I’m not interested in them. I don’t need to sell my publishing for that. But I can understand how some artists would. As a matter of fact, Favored Nations is starting a publishing company that will be administering publishing for artists that don’t have publishing administration. Because artists just don’t understand publishing. It’s a very complex issue, and it’s imperative that you do understand it.

St. James: I would imagine that keeping 50 percent of the publishing that a publisher would have taken from you plays a large part in your ability to create and record and make a living off the kind of music that you play.

Vai: Well, yes. But the thing is, it’s according to the kind of publishing deal you work. I mean, I was offered a lot of money, as an advance, against my publishing. And I thought about it. I mean I’m talking actual – not just administration – I’m talking a publishing deal, where they would take 50 percent and they’d give you a million bucks or something. And I opted not to do that because I just felt, in the long run – in the very long run – it’s going to be worth more to me.

But you never know. If I would have taken that money and put it in the bank and collected interest for the past, whatever – you know what I mean? It gets complicated for me. I don’t want to – I don’t need to. You see what I mean? I’m not interested in it. And maybe there’s a point where I’ ll write some songs for a publisher to work, if I think that they’re going to specifically work the song. If someone said to me, ‘If you give me these songs I know that I can get them placed with this, this, and this, but I want 50 percent of the publishing,’ you know? Then maybe it’s worth it.

St. James: You’re talking single song agreements?

Vai: Yeah. I’m not interested in doing catalog deals like that. I’m more interested in purchasing catalog.

St. James: Really? For Favored Nations? Through the deal you mentioned with Favored Nations?

Vai: Well, there’s various ways that a publisher can acquire catalog. There’s basically three different things you can do as a publisher: You can administer catalog – which means that you don’t own the publishing, but you can administer it for a fee, which is very valuable for a lot of artists because international mechanical recording rights societies are obligated by law to collect from record companies and/or distributors, but they’re not allowed to, by law, administer (pay) it to publishing companies that are not local.

So you have to get a sub-publisher to collect your mechanical royalties on your behalf. And artists don’t do that, and their money gets lost. Most of the small artists that I know – and even some bigger ones – never secured international mechanical rights administration from sub-publishers. And after two years you just lose that money. And I’m talking between 65 and 90 cents a record.

St. James: Is that because the majority of them are focused so much on North America that they just ignore the rest of the world?

Vai: Because they didn’t do their homework! They didn’t do their homework, they don’t understand publishing, and, they didn’t take the time to secure it. Or, they don’t have a manager that understands these things that’s willing to do it all for them. Or, they did do A, B, and C, but they just couldn’t get deals because they weren’t – their catalog didn’t have the potential to generate enough [money] to interest any sub-publishers to do the work.

St. James: Can you explain to us the difference between, and why you chose, ASCAP over BMI?

Vai: I don’t know. It was 18 years ago, and that’s just what I did. I just liked the way ASCAP looked on paper better than the letters B-M-I. Stupid as that. But if you read about them you’ll see – there’s another too, SECAM – and I just think ASCAP has a bigger share.

St. James: I know they compute royalties differently. Do you pay attention to that? Have you thought of changing? Do you feel that one is better than the other? Or are they both essentially the same?

Vai: I really don’t know how they compute differently. I’ve probably read it, and I probably know it, but I’ve stuck with it. 

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Related Links

Vai.com

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RockChops.com

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Parts of this interview may have previously appeared on or in the following publications: Guitar.com, Musician.com, Guitar World, Guitar Edge, Guitar, Guitar Shop, Guitar World Acoustic, Frets, Bass Player, Maximum Guitar, Los Angeles Daily News, Fender Frontline Magazine, MusiciansFriend.com or any of the other 50 or 60 publications I’ve written for since the mid-’80s. But hey, I wrote it, and this is my archive — Adam