Joe Satriani: Evolution of Creation
Aug 1st, 2008 | By admin | Category: Feature Articles
By Adam St. James
More so than almost any musician in the rock world, Joe Satriani has managed the impossible: maintaining a career based almost entirely on instrumental recordings. When I did this interview, Joe had just released his Engines of Creation CD and was preparing to tour. The disc was definitely a diversion from Satch’s normal routine, but still contained some awesome guitar playing.
Adam St. James: How did you become interested in the techno-electronica direction that you took on Engines of Creation?
Joe Satriani: Genereal interest, I guess. [It happened] over the last five years or so, traveling around the world touring and being exposed to different types of music when I wasn’t really pressed to spend a lot of time writing. Usually when you go on tour you’re there to take a break from writing and actually just concentrate on performing.
So I’m actually more open to what’s going on, and certainly outside the U.S. techno and electronica and the general hip-hop generation style stuff is just thriving out there. You find it being played on all kinds of media out there. I was exposed to it, was liking it, and as I was preparing to do something different. I didn’t know exactly what: a classical-oriented record, or a blues record, or something like this. I thought, ‘Well that might be a real interesting thing to do,’ since I’d just done about three records and spent a lot of years really focusing on what I do in relationship to a live band, in the studio or on the stage. So it seemed like a logical thing to do.
St. James: Did you spend time in any techno dance clubs anywhere?
Satriani: That’s stuff that happens when you’re out on tour and have nothing else to do. You just wind up walking down the street some night, on a night off, and you follow the noise, and there you are. But it’s interesting: I actually had more success finding more unusual music on the Internet. And there it’s totally unprogrammed. Even though music is everywhere these days, it’s all so programmed everywhere. The Internet is still somewhat free of that, where you can sort of just poke around the world and get it unfiltered.
St. James: By programmed you mean by music directors or corporations?
Satriani: Yeah. You know I think it was Brian Eno who said, years ago, about how music and the context [it’s used in] was really what was going on. In other words, there’s more music around, but more and more music is made for a particular context, and it doesn’t necessarily work outside of that context. But within that context it’s heavily directed. Like you’re in a hotel and you get in the elevator and there’s music in the elevator.
They don’t play just any music in the elevator. They play it on the airplane when you’re waiting to take off, a special kind of ‘We’re about to take off’ kind of music. And everything that you hear on television is carefully picked for the context to be delivered.
And it’s been that way in radio ever since its inception, really. Certain radio stations got certain advertisers’ dollars behind them, [and became] geared for certain people. That’s what I mean by context.
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St. James: When you were surfing the net and listening, were these widely known artists that inspired you, or lesser known artists?
Satriani: I whittled it down as I decided to make a project out of it. I started to think, ‘‘Well it’s always good to have a few records – anywhere from one to maybe six records – that you can bring with you to the studio to say, ‘This record has got the best sound,’ ‘This record has got the craziest bunch of noises on it,’ or ‘This record has really interesting arrangements,’ or ‘This writing is great.’’ Just about anything.
I was impressed by records that were good, but had a special commitment to the theme. And to the direction. The reason why that was important to me was that I didn’t want to just do a techno-flavored record, or a nod to electronica. I wanted to make a real Joe Satriani record with real melodies, and real songs, and everything that I demand out of myself when I make a record. But I did want it to be in a different style. So I thought, ‘Well I want to at least find records that I think have that commitment to direction,’ so it doesn’t sound like I’m flirting with a particular style just for the hell of it.
St. James: So what records were those?
Satriani: Records like Vegas by Crystal Method, Homogenic by Bjork, Protection by Massive Attack, The Fat of the Land by Prodigy. God, it seems like such a long time ago – we finished the record last July. So I’ve characteristically moved on from there. But that gives you a pretty good indication.
Those records were all different from each other, but I thought they all really stuck…within the grooves of each of those records they really presented a great theme. In other words you can put on that record, if you’re in a particular mood, and listen to the whole thing, and never be disappointed because they kept the vibe up all the time.
And some of them, like Massive Attack or Bjork, I thought that they had just incredible dedication to serving up these great vocal performances. And I knew that I wanted to – and that my job was – to replace that. And I was really curious with how they dealt with the surrounding music, and how they allowed this unique vocal performance to happen and yet still do it in a modern way, not in an old way, rock ’n’ roll style.

I’ve had plenty of experience writing and recording music where the guitar plays the melody. I’ve done that a lot, and people have heard me do it a lot. But this is a new context, and I couldn’t just turn on some groove machine like I was doing “Summer Song.”
I wanted to make sure that it really fit, like a glove. That meant that I had to change my sensibilities a little bit. I had to shed some idiosyncracies – some stylistic twitches here and there – to really get the two, the background and the performance, to really come together. Part of the problem is that a lot of the stuff that I wanted to create was coming from a style of music that actually shunned guitar and guitar solos.
And so that was the other thing where we thought, ‘A lot of the time you listen to a great electronica record or trip-hop kind of thing, and there’s nobody playing any kind of solo. Once you sort of just do your version of it, and stick a solo in it, it may not hold up. It’s not a viable form. Or people may hear it and go, ‘Wait a minute, shouldn’t this groove go on for six minutes with nothing else?’ (Laughs)
It was funny because even though I had a handful of records that I’m excited to put on at different times of the day, just as another human being into music, I also knew that I had a challenge. We were going to be doing something that no one had quite done. We had felt that no one had really done it yet: No one had put the guitar and the techno thing – for lack of a better phrase – together, totally committed from track one all the way through the last track.
St. James: A lot of people, especially guitarists, consider the whole techno genre as sort of anti-musician. How do you feel about that?
Satriani: Oh I think that’s entirely, completely wrong. There’s nothing else I can say about that. If someone doesn’t understand that…anytime someone has to make a musical decision, that require musical talent. I think it’s quite obvious that there are quite a lot of people who can play instruments, who play stuff that’s considered to be tasteless. There is a deluge of recorded material out there that is uninspired, unoriginal, copycat, useless, insipid, annoying. To me that’s always the danger. It’s not the inspired guy in a Top 40 band with a heart of gold. Or somebody pushing the envelope and putting things together.
Whether it’s a 13-year-old kid playing the blues who has to fight prejudice because [people think] he’s too young, or he came from the wrong side of town, or he’s the wrong color, whatever – or it’s somebody that’s taking a piece of music and doing something that’s never been done before and just getting trashed for it, it’s ridiculous.
So it doesn’t matter to me. In my life as a musician, I’ve seen more non-musicians with guitars around their bodies than not. And then, unfortunately, I’ve seen a few really talented people that had the access to modern instruments. Like it or not, the computer is an extension of modern electronic instruments.
St. James: How did you reconcile any concerns you may have had that your fans might not accept your venture into electronica?
Satriani: It’s as pliable as any other style. But as usual, I think it’s our own perception of what is music that is the hardest thing to change. In that way, Joe Satriani and the average person on the street are practically the same. Both are going to do that human thing: resist change. I perhaps am in a position to sort of push myself on that level while the average person out there, who is not a musician, says, ‘Why should I change my mind about something?’ ‘Why push my own envelope?’ It’s not their job. But it is mine. So that’s why I find myself constantly explaining every record I do.
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St. James: A lot of your particular core followers – as they do of any group – expect more of the same from you.
Satriani: With every record that you put out that you succeed with, you run into that unusual thing. I remember in 1988 when I toured with Mick Jagger, funny conversations we would have about that. Here’s a guy who, at the age of 21, had done it all. His records defined what the rock ’n’ roll lifestyle was all about. He experienced everything, the height to which you could go. And he knew, as most of the guys in the band knew, ‘If this ever lasts, people are still going to want us to do what we did between the ages of 17 and 21.’
But even though you know that’s coming you say, ‘I’m not going to let it affect my drive,’ as a musician, an entertainer, an artist – whatever you want to call yourself. For years when I was completely unknown I was free of it. I could play what I wanted and when I changed my mind no one cared. (Laughs) I was a nobody.
But it’s a small price to pay. When I put out Surfing With The Alien people thought I went commercial because they thought Not of This Earth was the best record I ever did. Then when I put out Flying In A Blue Dream people said, ‘How can you sing? You ruined the whole thing.’ So the next record of course I didn’t sing and people said, ‘How come you didn’t sing?’ I should just write their names down, because it’s a short list of people, but they really don’t want you to change. One day I should have like a convention or party somewhere and invite them all and just play them the old stuff. (Laughs)

But it’s OK, because I’m the same way. Going back to Jagger, I remember laughing about it but saying, ‘It’s really funny, but I like Exile on Main Street and I just got stuck there with you guys. I’ve bought every Stones record and liked parts, but I don’t know why I have this special connection to Exile on Main Street.’ And that’s the kind of thing the Stones don’t want to hear, especially coming from somebody like me, that I like this old record they did.
You have to really understand that because it exists, it is a gift unto itself. I think once any artist does that – they create something that you think is just the greatest work – you have to cut them some slack. When I really look at it I say, ‘Do you know how hard it is to come up with just one really great song in your life? Let alone one great album, that millions of people are into worldwide.’ And so for that, when I feel myself doing that to some other artist, I say, ‘I’m gonna cut the artist slack because at least they did it once.’ And that is, in itself, an incredible accomplishment.
Very few people have ever done that. It’s really only a handful of people that create successful records – and I’m not talking about the first week in Billboard – I’m talking about a record selling continually, decade after decade. That is a very important kind of record, because that means that it’s turning new people on year after year. It’s not like a funny trend kind of thing where a certain age group goes out and buys a record and the artist has no career two years later.
It’s a phenomenon. The Stones created that. And the Beatles, and Pink Floyd, and Jimi Hendrix. Their records go platinum every year and you never hear about it. It’s not news. But they’re classic records and they turn new people on all the time. And unfortunately they get reminded about it every time they put out a new record.
St. James: You mentioned that you’ve moved on to some new stuff since you finished recording Engines of Creation. What have you moved on to yourself?
Satriani: I have this sort of personal knee-jerk sort of reaction to myself. When I’m done with something I just look around my room and say, ‘I think I’ll put the drums over there, and my amp over there instead.’ I just rearrange the furniture, put away the old notes that I’ve been using, get a new book to write new ideas in, and restring some guitars with a heavier gauge – or a lighter gauge – put some new footpedals on the ground, and just start…just start vibing on what it would be like to reinvent my musical desire. And I wind up just getting into something different.
I guess I have been playing a lot of older blues. I took some guitars that I had and put some elevens on them – when I’m on tour I play nines. I’ll listen to some old stuff, or some recent records that have nods toward the sound of old blues music and stuff like that. But I simultaneously have been working on an orchestra record. But not like a Metallica thing.

I’ve actually been writing classical sounding music, but with melodies to be played by the guitar, just using my guitar and my [Apple] Powerbook, and a couple of synthesizers. But I may work on that for the next five years and it may never come out. It may just be a quote-unquote, “personal growth” project. Which sounds like a medical condition, but actually, it’s [good practice].
St. James: How do you keep on top of your playing skills when you’re not recording or touring?
Satriani: Play, play, play. Put on records that kick your butt.
St. James: Is it easy for you to find those?
Satriani: I can put on, like, The Ultra Zone by Steve Vai, and just hold my breath trying to keep up with him. (Laughs) Luckily I can just give him a call and say, “How did you do that?’ And I’ll do that. It’s funny, when you learn about your instrument, and music theory, and how pedals and amps work, what you’re left with is that quirky thing called imagination. And that’s the hardest thing to figure out.
It’s like, when you’re in the studio and you’re there to record a solo, and they record you messing around on your first take and it winds up being the most brilliant solo you ever played. The song becomes a single, and then you have to go play it live. Then you spend weeks trying to figure out, ‘How did I play that? Why did I play that? What fingering did I use? It doesn’t fit everytime I try to copy it.’
That happens a lot to me. Most of the solo work I do is that kind of thing where I don’t know really…the one thing I didn’t plan on, when we get to it, we just go with whatever happens in the studio. And I try to catch myself off-guard. But then figuring out exactly what I did later on is always quite difficult for me. I think the process of catching yourself off-guard is a great way to maintain your chops. Practicing the usual boring exercises helps too.
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St. James: What kind of exercises are those for you?
Satriani: All the things you learn the first three years of guitar playing. Any chromatic, finger twisting thing. Keeping track of your scales and arpeggios can help. That’s if you’ve got to play them. If I was going to make a blues record I wouldn’t bother practicing. I’d really concentrate more on the phrasing and things like that, because that would be more important.
But when I was going out with Deep Purple and I was going to have do a bunch of things that revolved around Ritchie Blackmore’s incredible playing I thought, ‘Well, I should alter my warmup routine to include things I think, as an outsider, sound like things he built a lot of his solos on.’ And it did involve a lot more arpeggio warmups because we used to hit the stage playing “Highway Star.” When you hit the stage cold and you’ve got to play a song like that, it’s pretty hard.
St. James: When you say that you work scales, do you sit down and play the seven diatonic scale patterns?
Satriani: Sometimes I will. Sometimes I’ll play major, minor, diminished, augmented, suspended arpeggios in two and three octaves in every key. And then I’ll do three octave scales in the diatonic modes, and a couple of extras that I use a lot, like Lydian dominant, or Phrygian dominant – stuff that I’ve used on records. I’ll play those in every key as well.
St. James: In your mind, do you break down scales into patterns that remain within a four or five fret range, and that stretch two octaves from the sixth string to the first string?
Satriani: I’ve spent so many years learning so many fingerings, every time I go to do it, I just pick the version I didn’t use the last time. But that’s the kind of work you do when you’re really learning the stuff. After awhile you realize that it bores you because you can do it. If you’re doing it flawlessly and you’re not making any mistakes, what’s the point? You’re not challenging your fingers.
So I’ll go back sometime to some of the Lennie Tristano exercises [Ed. Note: Tristano was a jazz pianist and composer from whom Satriani took lessons as a teenager.] which was every scale, in every key, off the open strings. In other words, one string. So you’d be doing, let’s say, every diatonic scale on the first string, in every key. So you’d start in a different place [for each key, usually on the root note] and you’d go up the neck as far as you could go, then down past where you started, as low as you could go, then back up to the key that you’re in. That’s a really great exercise for really quote-unquote, “knowing what they hell you’re doing.”

Usually if you ask someone, ‘Do you know how to play a harmonic scale?’ They’ll pick their favorite key and play it in two octaves, and that’s it. That’s not what I’m talking about. I mean knowing, you know, like, in the Biblical sense. ‘Do you actually know this scale?’ And that’s what the great musicians talk about: To know music is to know that thing inside and out, to know every nook and cranny of the scale – where it exists. And that can take hours and hours and hours of doing it every day.
St. James: Joe, you’ve done a lot of teaching – do you still teach?
Satriani: No, not really. There’s the odd contest winner here and there. But generally I find that most of those people don’t actually play. They’re just music fans who dialed the radio station at the right time. But, no, I haven’t given a real guitar lesson since ’88 or ’89. I think Kirk Hammett was the last one in early ’88.
St. James: How did you approach teaching?
Satriani: I learned some things [as a student]. I didn’t take a lot of lessons when I was growing up, but I took enough to know when a teacher really loves it, not like when they pull out a book and they want you to learn “Jingle Bells.” In my case I wanted to learn how to play “Purple Haze” and the guy pulled out a book and said, ‘Well, this guy can’t play, but what you really ought to do is sit down with this book and learn to play “Jingle Bells.” ’
And I thought, ‘If I ever grow up I’ll never be like that.’ As a result, when I was teaching and a 10-year-old kid, who couldn’t play at all and had a hard time learning to memorize first position, open string chords, said, ‘I want to learn how to play something by Armored Saint,’ I said, ‘Sure.’
I’d say, ‘It’s going to be the hardest thing you ever tried to do in your life, but here it goes.’ And they’d get it. Because they liked it. That’s such a simple thing to understand. And that’s the whole reason why a person who doesn’t listen to a style of music assumes that the kid is never going to be able to figure it out. When actually, it’s too difficult for them to figure out how to teach.

I always remembered my bad experiences with teachers in high school and I always said, ‘Don’t become one of those crabby adults when it comes to answering a kid’s question about how to play like Stevie Ray Vaughan, or whoever.’ Because that’s an honest and good desire and the worst thing you can do is discourage somebody. I think you should just say, ‘Anything is possible.’
St. James: So you’d rather show them exactly what they ask for, regardless of whether or not you think they can do it.
Satriani: Yeah. And why not? Because a couple of years goes by…I do remember quite vividly when Yngwie came along, and he was just so incredible, people didn’t know what to make of it. And it was incredible to me, but at the same time I knew exactly what he was doing. I couldn’t do it, and I’d say, ‘Well I can’t show you exactly what he’s doing, but I can show it to you in a slower version. I can’t play those minor scales that fast; I can’t make that sound.’ But I would explain, ‘His sound is unique because of his fingers. But these are the scales he’s playing, and you may possess the talent to play just as fast or faster. But you’ve got to start somewhere.’
But then after a couple of years people were saying, ‘Who cares?’ And I wound up thinking the opposite during the period when people were down on Yngwie, which is, ‘Now hold on a second: For awhile there everybody thought he was great. And he still plays just as well as he always did, so what’s wrong with that? I’ve never seen anyone else do it as well.’
So there’s a lot of that that goes on, and when you’re teaching, you see it. When Metallica started getting big, a lot of people didn’t understand it. They thought it was some weird kind of music. Of course now it’s huge. And if I was teaching guitar today I can guarantee you kids would come in and they’d say, ‘My friends and I, all we do is play Korn and Limp Bizkit. You’ve got to show me how to do it.’
There’s two reactions: The wrong one is the teacher that says, ‘Oh they’re not really playing. It’s just pedals. You should really be practicing your chords.’ The right way is to say, ‘Yeah, these guys are doing something really cool. Let me figure out a way to show you how to get there.’ Because it’s a totally accepted form of music.
It’s just the bane of guitar teachers, constantly getting hit with that. Of course a lot of times the students come in and they don’t understand that the teacher is working on their own career. The anxiety that they have to deal with – that they’re not making a record, and they have to continue to teach – and music students keep coming up with these other records that they might not like. But that’s their job. When you’re a teacher you’ve got to accept your job.
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St. James: What advice do you have for finding the right teacher?
Satriani: Just keep looking around. That’s the only way to do it. There’s no reason to stay with one teacher. I encouraged my students to go out and find other teachers while they were taking lessons from me, or take a break from me. Because there are a lot of people out there with a different point of view, that just might click with you so much better. People are very unpredictable, and when you put two of them together things happen that you just can’t imagine. It’s important that people should seek each other out.
St. James: Back to where you’re at right now: You’ve done one show on this tour, or two?
Satriani: One. We played a really nice theater in Sacramento, built for the symphony. And the first thing that we always wonder is, ‘Is the set paced right?’ The pacing, or sequencing of songs is very important in a live performance. Then of course on a tour you might do an outdoor festival on Wednesday, and on Thursday you’re in a theater where everybody sits down, and then on Friday you’re playing a huge club. That throws a monkey wrench into pacing.
We would do songs in two-song groups and we would look at each other like, ‘That worked. That was cool. I can run over there and step on my pedal to get to that part, or change guitars.’ But it’s about a 30 song set. I think the set is two hours and 45 minutes, which I think is too long. I think we have to trim a song or two, or maybe stop improvising so much.
Everything worked out really well. We were really excited by the end of the night. It was Eric’s first gig with us. Stu and Jeff and I have been touring together for years. And most of the show is, outside of the four new songs, stuff from all the records. When you go on tour, eventually you relive all your early records. The fans really do want to see you play the older stuff. You can see ’em out there: the first record group, the third record group. They’re all waiting to hear their favorite song. So we do everything.
We used the website (www.Satriani.com) for about a month or two, where we had a form they could fill out to help choose the set list. And then we had this software show how many votes there were for each song in the catalog, which is a little over a hundred songs. It was really cool because I could look at it for about three or four weeks just before rehearsals. When I had my set list already written, I looked at it and we were about 95 percent right there. I was really happy about that. There were just some that I thought, ‘They’ll change their minds when they hear us live.’
St. James: You could actually break that list down by city and have a different set for every city.
Satriani: Don’t go gettin’ any crazy ideas!
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Chop Builder For Rock Guitar DVD Take your hard rock chops into the stratosphere with Berklee professor and world-renowned guitarist Joe Shred Lord Stump. In this master class DVD, Stump breaks down his disciplined approach to scale patterns and practice routines. He’ll show you how to improve your technique and increase your speed, no matter what style you play. All you need is your guitar and a metronome. Stump will help you achieve a greater mastery of the instrument, with routines to get your chops in shape for the intense physical demands of the rock guitar idiom. 43 minutes.
Beginning Rock Lead Guitar DVD This comprehensive DVD introduces you to all the essential scales and techniques used to play rock lead guitar. On the DVD, Dave Celentano demonstrates and will have you playing the following: alternate picking, sweep picking, hammer ons, pull offs, slides, vibrato, tapping, string bending, legato, pinch harmonies, and many tips. At the end of the DVD you’ll put it all together by learning a complete solo and then performing it over the rhythm track. 60 minutes.
Intermediate Rock Lead Guitar DVD This comprehensive DVD picks up where Dave Celentano’s Beginning Rock Lead Guitar left off. On this DVD you will learn exercises to improve finger dexterity, three note per string scale exercises, alternate picking, tremelo picking, sweep picking, advanced string bending, triads, arpeggios, long legato licks, speed licks, string bending licks, connecting licks to make solos, and a complete solo to play over the rhythm track at the end. Transcription booklet included. 60 minutes.
Advanced Rock Lead Guitar DVD In this DVD, Dave Celentano concludes his three level rock lead guitar course by introducing the student to a variety of complete solos to learn and play over the band rhythm tracks. Topics include: ’80s style soloing, modal soloing in rock, acoustic blues soloing, triads, arpeggios, legato string bending, vibrato, tapping, and more. Dave demonstrates all the solos, then breaks each down into small sections for learning and discusses important concepts, theory, and scales. Transcription booklet included. 60 minutes.
Incredible Scale Finder: A Guide To Over 1,300 Scales Learn to use the entire fretboard with the Incredible Scale Finder! This book contains more than 1,300 scale diagrams for the most important 17 scale types, including major and minor scales, pentatonics, the seven major modes, diminished, melodic minor, harmonic minor, and more – in all 12 keys! Basic scale theory is also presented to help you apply these colorful sounds in your own music. Written by GuitarLife editor Adam St. James.
Related Links
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Parts of this interview may have previously appeared on or in the following publications: Guitar.com, Musician.com, Guitar World, Guitar Edge, Guitar, Guitar Shop, Guitar World Acoustic, Frets, Bass Player, Maximum Guitar, Los Angeles Daily News, Fender Frontline Magazine, MusiciansFriend.com or any of the other 50 or 60 publications I’ve written for since the mid-’80s. But hey, I wrote it, and this is my archive — Adam











